Mar 10, 2014

Ridiculed Jobar Lab actually was Sarin Related

If this is your first time here, I recommend starting from the conclusion page.

Richard Lloyd of Tesla, who previously published a widely-reported estimate of 2 km for the UMLACA/Volcano's range, has recently made another interesting discovery.

First, some background: Three days after the Ghouta attack, the Syrian news agency reported that Syrian soldiers who entered Jobar discovered an underground chemical weapons store, and that some of them suffered from "suffocation". This was quickly dismissed as a desperate attempt to divert attention, and the equipment was estimated to be related to explosives production or to protection from a chemical attack. This blog too did not find that report useful.

However, Mr. Lloyd managed to identify in a video of the location two items which perfectly match the sarin IEDs used against Syrian soldiers in Jobar, as reported in the final UN report. This attack was of special interest as it was the only one where the UN detected sarin in a soldier's blood sample (despite a one month delay in sampling).

See here the full report.

Update: An anonymous contributor below noted that the soldiers were attacked by the IEDs just 250m from the likely launch location of the August 21st attack. Besides further strengthening the connection between the two attacks, it provides another important indication: Since the Syrian army has reported being attacked while advancing into this area on August 24th, it is likely that the area (and rocket launch location) was under opposition control on August 21st.

Update: The UN reported that two cylinders seized in August by the Syrian Army tested positive for sarin. It is reasonable to assume this report relates to the IEDs found in Jobar.

Conclusion: The underground store discovered by the Syrian Army in Jobar was indeed a chemical weapons store.

22 comments:

  1. Interesting find, Mr. Lloyd.

    The fill port is shown pointing up simply because it has to be in order to fill it so a stable base had to be constructed. It does not necessarily need to be placed in the ground that way.

    If it uses a pressure-sensitive anti-personnel mine, it would have to be on the top. A PMN-2 mine just sitting on top of the can would be more than enough to disburse the contents.

    http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2017727747_syria12.html

    If the can was, in fact, placed in the ground withe the fill-port up, then I would think the small cutout on the bottom is for wire (for an electric blasting cap as pictured ) or det cord for some external detonator.

    I really can't picture a pressure sensitive mine mounted underneath a can of Sarin that needs to be armed in place. That would be pretty insane. But then, I never expected to see barrels of TNT kicked out of a helicopter either.

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  2. If this info is reliable, maybe we should take another look at the Mintpress story with following quote: "The father described the weapons as having a “tube-like structure” while others were like a “huge gas bottle.” The Anna video shows elements that fit the description...

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    Replies
    1. I think this could match many other items, and in any case, the mintpress scenario doesn't match the evidence very well.
      We could of course be surprised in the future, like we were here, but I don't think we can build a case here.

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    2. Another question, Sasa:
      An argument against regime involvement is that launching the volcanoes in contested area is practically impossible. Doesn´t that count for rebel launch too? The suspected launch zone is next to "semi-regime controlled" road. Would it have been possible for rebels to launch without being attacked or seen by regime? Or do you suspect regime control at night to be less?

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    3. I don't think the field near Irbin is contested. It was fully under rebel control, with two civilian neighborhoods nearby. It was only a few days later that SAA got close to the area (but still not reached the field).
      Note that if they brought the sarin from this store, they actually walked DEEPER into rebel territory to launch the attack.

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    4. 1/But the road is regime controlled... Would a discrete launch be possible a few hundreds of meters away from the regime road? Wouldn´t that be risky? And that just 1 hour after regime shelling (I don´t know if it was in launch area?).
      2/ The Lloyd report gives geolocation for IED, storage videos are filmed ´close by´. But I guess we are not sure of exact location? I just wonder why rebels would have their ´workshop´so close to regime-held road. Maybe to prevent civilians snooping around?..?.. Apparently an awful lot of things going on in that area around the 20 th of August!

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    5. I don't think the road is regime controlled in the sense that SAA forces are present there. It is shown in only one control map and I understand it to be indicative of the road being open to traffic. So you can drive from central Damascus on this road and not be stopped by a rebel checkpoint.

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    6. The road had a number of Government pickets on it and there are videos showing them being attacked by mortar fire from Irbin shortly before August 21

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    7. For instance this video of August 16 showing a mortar attack on a Government picket on the Southern Bypass - note the military hospital in the background and the flag on the picket.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFGfC1DccM4

      كتيبة المدفعية لواء مجاهدي الغوطة استهداف حاجز على المتحلق الجنوبي بقذائف الهاون وإصابات مباشرة

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    8. Charles,
      Southern By-pass? Close to the supposed ´launching field´?
      In your opinion, seeing the movement by both parties around the suspected area, does it make sense for either of them, to go down this field (full moon), and comfortably launch these rockets? Honest question, i´m not suggesting anything.

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    9. I haven't been able to locate precisely where the picket was on the bypass. I think it was to the North end. The picket may or may not have been close to the launch area. My impressions from studying videos is that pickets were placed at major intersections - so track down the Southern bypass and wherever there are loop feeders / overpasses you should find a picket.

      The group that did the mortar attacks was active in Irbin and Zamalka, They also have videos of their attacks on army bases in the Jobar Qaboun Industrial area and their units fighting inside the Technical school on August 21 ditto.

      ANNA video suggests they had tunnels under the highways between Irbin and Jobar and Qaboun and Jobar, and possibly Irbin and Qaboun.

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    10. Looked through the videos. This group seems to operate in the launch area and attack SAA forces to the north-west. Could probably be used as a strong indication of opposition control of the launch area.

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    11. I looked at Brown Moses work and also Chris´and just have impression A LOT was going on in the launch area. While launching quietly and unseen might have been very well possible, it does´t seem to be the most likely. If thesis of rebel false flag is correct, why wld they take risk of launching just next to this road, with tanks patrolling it. I would think making use of other devices (as the ones found in Jobbar) would maybe make more sense...
      Too much in this rocket story that doen´t add up.

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    12. Sasa, suggestion for new page:
      Antithesis page for (non) use of rockets as Sarin vehicle using discarded evidence like the Piccini , Yaya, M Agnes...
      I understand this would be very controversial and probably no one would see use of it or would have energy to contribute.

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    13. Don't see any problem with that. They need an open area to operate the two trucks, and they need to be within range of Qaboun and Jobar (according to the videos). The field seems to be under full control and the best place for that.
      It's not a risk free operation, and they would have been much happier if the Volcanoes had a 4 km range, but that's what they had and it's a war...
      I would also assume they had a scout looking out for tanks on the highway etc. (assuming tanks actually travel the road at night).

      As for alternative scenarios - the "suggesting scenarios" page is still open to any idea that can make sense of the evidence.

      Thanks Veritas!

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  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  4. Do you have a link (besides the Jpeg) to the document from Lloyd?

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  5. The geolocation of this IED facility seems to be just across the road of the assumed Liwa launching zone? Is this correct? It also seems to be in the expected launching zone based on the 2 km range of rockets. Correct?

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  6. ANNA report "Syrian Bomb Defusers" - they call them sappers(!)
    from Aug. 26th, 2013. Captioned in German/English/Spanish length:13:21

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uCMRZ6tI9c

    Section on 'Chemical tubes' used in land mines at 7:10

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uCMRZ6tI9c#t=430

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